Why not fix the game?

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Why not fix the game?

Post by Kenert on July 30th 2015, 10:23 pm

I see that the developers are hellbent on creating NTSD II. Why not fix the previous game first? It was pretty much complete, but there were still bugs and imbalance in the game. Why not just keep going on that game and make it better, instead of starting from scratch every two years?
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Dark Lord 123 on July 30th 2015, 11:05 pm

@Kenert wrote:I see that the developers are hellbent on creating NTSD II. Why not fix the previous game first? It was pretty much complete, but there were still bugs and imbalance in the game. Why not just keep going on that game and make it better, instead of starting from scratch every two years?

Well you see nobody is developing anything, so that's the main problem.

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Kenert on July 30th 2015, 11:39 pm

The least they could do is release unmoleboxed 1.9. The 2.0a version is unmoleboxed already anyway, but it's way buggier. The 1.9 could be slightly adjusted to work perfectly.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by T.O.R.N.A.D.O on July 31st 2015, 10:11 am

Well if you can find any original developer to release it then that would be great.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Remilia Scarlet on July 31st 2015, 3:34 pm

It's settled. We're fixing it ourselves.

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by The Creator on July 31st 2015, 3:40 pm

You can't just go continue some else's work without permission knowing you can contact the developer (Samuel).
It's isn't very hard to get all the .dat files and sprites from a moleboxed LF2 game actually, it just takes a little more time than just copying and pasting the files.

Besides, I'll let you all know that a fix is already on the way, so please stop bringing up a 1000 year old ruckus.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Remilia Scarlet on July 31st 2015, 3:47 pm

Samuel didn't develop the original NTSD game, as far as I recall. He's been making versions of its sequel.
In that sense, any adaptions of the game on the 2.0a engine, including the one used in the tournament, are all illegal.

I'm sure the original team wouldn't mind their 5+ year old project to get a proper port from 1.9 to 2.0a.

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by The Creator on July 31st 2015, 4:01 pm

The original team is scattered and dead. ZXCV GAVE privilege for someone to continue it. Therefore the other versions are NOT illegal.

Of course, I am sure Sami wouldn't mind some help or so. That I have nothing against.
NTSD 2.4 2.0a is as real as it will get. Just wait for 2.5.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Dark Lord 123 on July 31st 2015, 4:12 pm

@The Creator wrote:You can't just go continue some else's work without permission knowing you can contact the developer (Samuel).
It's isn't very hard to get all the .dat files and sprites from a moleboxed LF2 game actually, it just takes a little more time than just copying and pasting the files.

Besides, I'll let you all know that a fix is already on the way, so please stop bringing up a 1000 year old ruckus.

ahhaahah 2.5, I would like to see that.

And Remilia Scarlet I hope you can see the picture under me, it's the message at the end of ntsd 2.4
zxcv said:"If anyone would like to step up and try to continue ntsd in my place go for it"

(Edit: I will resize my profile pic later)


Last edited by Dark Lord 123 on July 31st 2015, 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Remilia Scarlet on July 31st 2015, 4:18 pm

All the team's work goes towards the NTSDII game, as far as I'm concerned.

Nonetheless, I've PM'd Samuel

@Dark Lord 123 wrote:And Remilia Scarlet I hope you can see the picture under me, it's the message at the end of ntsd 2.4
zxcv said:"If anyone would like to step up and try to continue ntsd in my place go for it"

Ah, I actually missed out on it, despite not even being the first time seeing it.

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Rhino.Freak on July 31st 2015, 5:31 pm

NTSD 2.4 truly is buggy and unbalanced.

Take a look at the tournament this time.. Here's some fun info I collected regarding the matches..
Character's and the times they were used in the 2015 tournament (excluding finals as no video yet) :
Sasuke - 12
Itachi - 7
Kisame - 6
Deidara - 6
Gaara - 4
Chiyo - 2
Yamato - 1
Neji - 1
Hidan - 1
Rest - 0

Its obvious that either the other characters are not interesting enough to play with or they are simply not balanced, both of which should be fixed.

Now about who has the right to continue/mess around with NTSD II or 2.4 .. the answer is ANYONE. There's nothing stopping anyone. I don't know about other old team members but I do know about zxcv, he doesn't mind (and doesn't care lol).
The point is if its good enough, we people will play it... there's no "official" tag involved.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Dark Lord 123 on July 31st 2015, 6:13 pm

@Rhino.Freak wrote:
Its obvious that either the other characters are not interesting enough to play with or they are simply not balanced, both of which should be fixed.

Well i always chose Itachi, Kisame, Sasuke.
cuz Itachi is a LEGEND, Kisame is a LEGEND, and Sasuke is ok.

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http://opae.a-superlab.com/forum/index.php

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Rhino.Freak on July 31st 2015, 6:25 pm

@Dark Lord 123 wrote:
@Rhino.Freak wrote:
Its obvious that either the other characters are not interesting enough to play with or they are simply not balanced, both of which should be fixed.

Well i always chose Itachi, Kisame, Sasuke.
cuz Itachi is a LEGEND, Kisame is a LEGEND, and Sasuke is ok.

I can see character's personality being a parameter that would make users pick their players but that way there should be more users of Jiraiya and Naruto as well..
Those character's that you mentioned are a bit OP and the best part about them is that they have unique moveset gameplay wise that makes them fun to play online.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by The Creator on July 31st 2015, 6:52 pm

I am sure I mentioned somewhere that it would be best for NTSD to be a community project, and not just a small disclosed team working on it.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Remilia Scarlet on July 31st 2015, 8:47 pm

Ever since my registration date, I haven't seen anyone taking any big steps towards the development of the original NTSD. There has been a few versions that only focus on the versus mode, but none that completely solves the crashing/non-functionality for both story mode (wether or not people play it, it's still a plus to have it working), and certain attack moves such as Kisame's water clones and Orochimaru's Manda in the most "ideal" versions, which is present in the one in the tournament.

I do agree that the balancing the characters would be a much bigger project, since that is more than just fixing something, which would require everyone's help. We can all get together regarding what to do about this, but the former (fixing the crashes and non-functionality) is no more than just fixing what is broken, which is already being taken care of.

If anyone wants to suggest something that is in need of balancing, then go ahead and say so. If there is already a topic that includes balancing suggestions, then we can probably move our suggestions and discussions regarding balances there.

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by The Creator on July 31st 2015, 10:19 pm

I mentioned my problems with nearly all the chars, but Rhino bllshtd them all. XD
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Rhino.Freak on August 1st 2015, 3:08 pm

There is no such thread if I recall. We can make it though.
As far as the manda and clone bugs in the game are concerned, idk why they happen and honestly I never investigated either. Ill see if I can indeed find an issue with those.
There are many other issues as well which kinda makes a fixed version essential.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Remilia Scarlet on August 1st 2015, 3:23 pm

Having a topic dedicated to only gathering all the ideas and suggestions regarding the balancing of the game would be nice.

As for the crashes of those moves, as well as Kakashi's transformation to an attacking opponent in Story mode..
If you look into the NTSD 2.4_2.0a folder, you'll find a file called "lib.dll", which is not found in the original game. The ones behind this port seem to have done something quite unique for a LF2 mod and put the codes for specific moves, summons, and transformations into that dll file instead of keeping everything inside of the data files.
What could possible go wrong? For a reason I cannot really explain, everything connected to the dll file has a high chance of crashing.

You can delete this dll file and enjoy a game that doesn't crash, but this will affect the moves that are connected to it. For example Orochimaru's Manda won't appear after being summoned. Kisame will summon Shinos instead of water clones. Kakashi never attacks you in Story Mode, and just stands there like decoration.

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Rhino.Freak on August 1st 2015, 3:28 pm

This is ridiculous lol why would they do something like that in the port? Hmm.. so I guess there is no original 1.9c unmoleboxed ntsd 2.4?
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Remilia Scarlet on August 1st 2015, 3:51 pm

I wonder the same, but fear not, the OP of this topic has already taken care of recreating a lot of the codes that the dll took care of, which is why balancing is of bigger concern to me right now.


Last edited by Remilia Scarlet on August 1st 2015, 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Smouk on August 1st 2015, 3:52 pm

I have the most balanced version guys, i made it 1-2 years ago for some russian RPG forum, so you can try it if you want, but there are some changes that i can't remember now. But ALL russian players said that it's the most balanced version they played. Also there are fixed many bugs (but with kisame and oro's manda it's still a problem (you can fix it if you will put comb. with win98)
Balanced like weak chars (like sakura, kiba, sai and kankuro etc) were updated to strong chars level (itachi, sasuke etc).
new attacks:
Ten-ten - DvJ
Oro - D^J
Lee: AD, D^J, DvJA
sakura: AD

and maybe there are some else
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Smouk on August 1st 2015, 3:53 pm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9236br7mef5te0f/NTSD-RP%20Edition_v2.rar?dl=0
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Rhino.Freak on August 1st 2015, 4:08 pm

Nice smouk I'll play it.. however I was looking at the data files of the NTSD 2.4 _2.0a and I found the issue(s).

It has something to do with the .dll indeed. That .dll is used to recreate the transforming state 4xxx but perhaps it wasn't made perfectly.
There's an easy fix by replacing the .exe with a new exe which has the +140 pics addition in transformed characters thing removed and we replace the state: 4xxx by state: 8xxx and DONE. But someone has to do exe editing which I do not have the knowledge of.

And then there's another way.
I'll explain:
Orochimaru when summons Manda what he actually does is summon some specific frames from the stage mode enemy Sound Ninja which then transforms himself into Manda.
Transforming indirectly VIA Sound Ninja gives 2 things to Manda which are actually specific to characters (which manda, is not) and those are :
1. 500 Health! Very Happy So that Manda doesn't disappear in 1 hit
2. AI so that Manda attacks at will.

But I think that the created state: 4xxx in this exe wasn't able to transform A CHARACTER (type 0 object) to a BALL (type 3 object).
What we can do to fix this issue is remove a useless character from the game and replace him by Manda. No transformation, just summon Manda. The ugly thing about this is that Manda will be visible in character selection screen when lf2.net is typed. There are a few workaround for those though.

Kisame's clones problem is just silly imo.
"id: 5" is of Rudolf in lf2 which has a special effect when summoned. The summoned Rudolf will have 30 HP each.
In NTSD, id: 5 is Shino so what was been done in NTSD is :
kisame summons Shino which transforms to Kisame.. lol
Solution? Just swap there id's lol (with some little changes in .dat files). Tried and didn't crash Very Happy

TL;DR the bugs are fixable one way or the other. Can be fixed in a 2.5 fixed version if we make them.

EDIT: Another thing about the state: 4xxx in original NTSD is that it transforms the character to the certain FRAME number they are in, while normally the character would be in frame #0 of the transformed character.

EDIT 2: Hmm so I guess the best way around to fix these issues is find someone willing to modify original lf2.exe for us Razz


Last edited by Rhino.Freak on August 1st 2015, 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Kenert on August 1st 2015, 5:10 pm

@Smouk wrote:I have the most balanced version guys, i made it 1-2 years ago for some russian RPG forum, so you can try it if you want, but there are some changes that i can't remember now. But ALL russian players said that it's the most balanced version they played. Also there are fixed many bugs (but with kisame and oro's manda it's still a problem (you can fix it if you will put comb. with win98)
Balanced like weak chars (like sakura, kiba, sai and kankuro etc) were updated to strong chars level (itachi, sasuke etc).
new attacks:
Ten-ten - DvJ
Oro - D^J
Lee: AD, D^J, DvJA
sakura: AD

and maybe there are some else

On Windows 10, the game crashes when launching a fight with Windows 98 compatibility.
It also still uses the .dll which is the kryptonite to stability.


@Rhino.Freak wrote:Nice smouk I'll play it.. however I was looking at the data files of the NTSD 2.4 _2.0a and I found the issue(s).

It has something to do with the .dll indeed. That .dll is used to recreate the transforming state 4xxx but perhaps it wasn't made perfectly.
There's an easy fix by replacing the .exe with a new exe which has the +140 pics addition in transformed characters thing removed and we replace the state: 4xxx by state: 8xxx and DONE. But someone has to do exe editing which I do not have the knowledge of.

And then there's another way.
I'll explain:
Orochimaru when summons Manda what he actually does is summon some specific frames from the stage mode enemy Sound Ninja which then transforms himself into Manda.
Transforming indirectly VIA Sound Ninja gives 2 things to Manda which are actually specific to characters (which manda, is not) and those are :
1. 500 Health! Very Happy So that Manda doesn't disappear in 1 hit
2. AI so that Manda attacks at will.

But I think that the created state: 4xxx in this exe wasn't able to transform A CHARACTER (type 0 object) to a BALL (type 3 object).
What we can do to fix this issue is remove a useless character from the game and replace him by Manda. No transformation, just summon Manda. The ugly thing about this is that Manda will be visible in character selection screen when lf2.net is typed. There are a few workaround for those though.

Kisame's clones problem is just silly imo.
"id: 5" is of Rudolf in lf2 which has a special effect when summoned. The summoned Rudolf will have 30 HP each.
In NTSD, id: 5 is Shino so what was been done in NTSD is :
kisame summons Shino which transforms to Kisame.. lol
Solution? Just swap there id's lol (with some little changes in .dat files). Tried and didn't crash Very Happy

TL;DR the bugs are fixable one way or the other. Can be fixed in a 2.5 fixed version if we make them.

EDIT: Another thing about the state: 4xxx in original NTSD is that it transforms the character to the certain FRAME number they are in, while normally the character would be in frame #0 of the transformed character.

I deleted the .dll and am now slowly fixing the coding for the game to work without it.
I already got the transformations figured out and have fixed them on at least 2 characters. Right now my biggest issue is that I have no idea how to get Sasori's puppet mode attacks working.
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Re: Why not fix the game?

Post by Rhino.Freak on August 1st 2015, 5:12 pm

Dude its too annoying trying to workaround those.. and well we all fixing things on our own computers would be a waste of effort.
I have a friend who is capable of exe editing, I'll ask him if he has the time to make a fixed exe for us.

edit: what issues in sasori puppet? and you gotta be more specific, I might be able to help you Razz
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