NTSDII Main problem and its solution

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NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Smouk on January 9th 2013, 12:39 am

Many of you probably already have realized that NTSDII will slowly be improved, with things like new attacks for old characters, or even adding new characters to the game. Regardless of that, I recently thought that in addition to the regular innovations, the team must pay attention to the older stuff as well. I don't mean finding bugs and fixing them. Bugs will always exist, but they need to be fixed each time. The issue is about the technique "levels", which exist in this game for all of the characters except for Temari.

But before I state the main problem of the game in my opinion, I would first like to say a few words about the new version:
NTSDII-Christmas Release- this version is really an advancement in the series of NTSDII. This is noticeable by the new characters, new global updates and the other stuff. As I said, the game has alot of disadvantages. That's ok though, because the team has what it takes to fix and improve all of these disadvantages. However, despite the fact that I am a member of the team, I won't neglect the chance to criticize the game.

For me, the game is really interesting and full of great ideas and features. But regardless of that, in my opinion, the game is far from NTSD 2.4. Yes, many of you will say that 2.4 is worse, because it's old and everything is already mastered and overplayed. But still, 2.4 was played for already 3 years, and is still being played till this day. What do you think, why is that? because one game in 2.4, in contrast to NTSDII, has really unpredictable results. Thats because every technique in 2.4 makes sense and has it's pros and cons. NTSDII doesn't have this. In NTSDII the game is interesting, but the interest is lost quickly, in contrast to 2.4, where the players can play for hours.

In short, my statement for why NTSD 2.4 > NTSDII is: in 2.4, it's easy to make a technique but it's hard to dodge, but in NTSDII it's exactly the opposite.
All of what I wrote above refers to online games. The basis of NTSD has always been online-mode.

Therefore, after identifying the problem, I have an idea for how to fix it. There's the problem that prevents the game to reach the level of 2.4 in the online mode, and it's these technique "levels". Against a real player, to make a 2nd or 3rd technique level is simply unrealistic. This is only possible if the opponent is away. Today I was playing vs real players online, and I realized that half of the attacks, which almost all the characters posses (I mean the attacks on the 2nd and 3rd levels) are simply useless. For example of what I mean, you can take Temari because she's the only one that is somehow similar to 2.4, and see by yourself.

The solution for this problem is clear: Remove the technique "levels" and change the system to what Itachi from 2.4 had, with his fire techniques. (D ^ A)



Last edited by Smouk on January 9th 2013, 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Divisor XII on January 9th 2013, 12:51 am

Well written.

You could leave one version as it is, to showcase new improvements, levels, advanced stuff etc. and make a "retro" version of NTSD II, which would bring back the old stuff that made this game so popular.

That would keep the game fresh and new, while at the same time good for people who play it online and such.
Following this suggestion would, though, double your work...anyway, the decision is all yours Very Happy

I bet that fans that have at least one neuron inside their brain will respect you and your work whatever you choose to do.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by N.D on January 9th 2013, 12:55 am

I was right.I have the same opinion,even tho i didn't wont to abuse it,because i respect the teams decision.Charging the attack takes up to 3,4 seconds,when full on chakra,and you should be lucky enough to even charge the attack,with bots,cant imagine with online players.I didn't want to even try playing NTSD II online,until it's finished,tho i know its far from it.
Now as i can express my thoughts on it.I suggest that the chargeable,should be deleted.Or if you want to do a stronger attack you should press more buttons.Learning techs are easy since there is a simple pattern to it.Another thing to suggest is that the platforms are pretty much useless since,you get up on them only to escape from the enemy and charge up your chakra,or in other hand jump on the enemy above.That could be don with wall running.
Another,there is a big flaw i don't like,is (so called dashing).NTSD II,doesn't have that.It ha s so called (Teleport) now,since in the middle of the (dash) character stops in mid air and falls in a straight line,that reduces the flow of the game,and the ability to combine attacks with one another.As you say above.In NTSD 2.4 there are alot of abilities that make sense,and still some don't.Example,playing NTSD 2.4,i really rarely use sasukes chidori.Since its charging and you should be lucky enough to hit an enemy,there the advantage are lags,since enemy can't react instantaneously,i can imagine charging for 4 extra seconds to it.I do understand that you want to completely change the game,but i don't think that people will get MAD,if you implemented some attacks from old NTSD,just to keep the flow running.Of course that should not be abused.

Play as Naruto in NTSD II,and you can clearly see that you can make combos with him because of his clones and his flying rasengan.
Play as Sasuke,well you can't do any much of the combos from my perspective because most of his attacks are charging.And you made him way to fast.
Play as Temari,as you said.She is perfect as she is with her abilities,even tho some of them are OP.That is perfectly normal.Her attacks need scaling.
I haven't play as Gaara much but his attack are slow (they should be slow)but he should be balanced little,since most of those attacks are ranged,and mostly spammable.
Play as Kakashi,his pretty good.Tho i don't play him that much.
Hope i helped a little. boobies
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Lillzeirell on January 9th 2013, 12:59 am

im totally agree with all of this of course.

Also, i wish to see kentaru and other ntsd creators plaing online in their own game, not just smouk.
Why?
It will help them to understand what they need to do, and what is not usefull vs human in online fight.

Personally i, for myself, buried ntsd II right after i heard about lvls and some other stuff, even before first demo. But now i see a little hope. Good
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by FirzenSK on January 9th 2013, 1:37 am

I think lvls attacl would work when charging will be faster. Just idea.
I dont like that idea, you would use more buttons to do some awesome attack. I dont want to learn attack which have 10 buttons to react.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by -samael- on January 9th 2013, 1:49 am

Well... is exactly what i said since the beginning of my participation on this game... i just HATE charge system... but EVERYBODY said that is possible to use and blablabla... And my idea is exactly the same... Use that old system of Itachi for chose jutsus. Maybe charge system can be useful for something like "hell moves" or something like this... but i just HATE chrge system...

the game already have a charge bar... its called MP bar...

My preffered style of game is that one from my old version... many atks and fast atks...
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Mihdi Uchiha on January 9th 2013, 2:06 am

Yeah, The atack system that Sasuke have now of Fire techniques should work with all the atacks...

Also the team should try with the idea of Sam of Charge While Running.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Mad_Max on January 9th 2013, 2:33 am

@Smouk wrote:Remove the technique "levels" and change the system to what Itachi from 2.4 had, with his fire techniques. (D ^ A)
I vote for this ^
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Rhino.Freak on January 9th 2013, 6:55 am

agreed, finally someone from team pointed this out.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by -samael- on January 9th 2013, 3:14 pm

@Rhino.Freak wrote:agreed, finally someone from team pointed this out.


finally what????

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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Mad_Max on January 9th 2013, 4:35 pm

But no one thinks that with high ping 4 buttons combinations will be much harder than 3. So need another solution.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Smouk on January 9th 2013, 4:43 pm

well, there are can be 3 solutions:

-to make it like Itachi's Fire in 2.4
-just to make the speed of charging more faster (x3)
-to follow samael's system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Z1i4Zc3nk
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by chickenninja on January 9th 2013, 7:44 pm

or you combinate the system from samael and the faster speed idea

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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by FirzenSK on January 9th 2013, 7:45 pm

@Smouk wrote:to make it like Itachi's Fire in 2.4

It could be good if we could play withoult lags. I think everybody know its hard to do any fire attack when lags are very big.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by N.D on January 9th 2013, 8:13 pm

Wouldn't it have been bothersome if you are charging the attack and still can't do any other till you use up your charged one..Or maybe i have some idea.
What about charging the attack like that,but any attack you do will do an increase damage depending on how much you have charged up,and it will simply disappear ones you used the ability.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by K E N T A R U on January 9th 2013, 8:16 pm

I think I'm the only one who likes the charging system... To me the charging system makes perfect sense, you're putting more chakara into an attack to make it stronger. Making the charge techniques into jutsu ones would make it too easy to just spam the lv3 jutsu over and over again. I do agree with the speed to charge the attack. I already have an idea on how to make the charging system better that I will share with sam and hopefully have it tested sometime this week, it'll add more range and control to the charge moves making them more useful and effective.

I think one of the reasons people like 2.4 better is because they've mastered it and not only that 2.4 has more characters. 2.4 is complete whereas NTSD II is only getting started. Its like comparing an infant to an adult. I've watched videos on youtube of fights in NTSD 2.4 and I've been very disappointed, it became a game all about running around chasing each other and spamming three attacks until one of the hits. When NTSD II gets more characters I'm pretty sure people will spend hours messing around with them just like with 2.4.

I've been trying to make this game into something the NTSD 2.4 fans will enjoy, and I now see that I have a long ways to go before this game will be accepted by the old fans. I'm trying to get it closer to 2.4 without loosing the things that make it "NTSD II", and I've already accepted the fact that this game won't appeal to everyone, and that there will always be something that someone doesn't like. Just give the game time to grow guys. And Smouk, that was very well written, your opinion might just make this game what NTSD fans want.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Lillzeirell on January 9th 2013, 8:44 pm

@K E N T A R U wrote:I think I'm the only one who likes the charging system... To me the charging system makes perfect sense, you're putting more chakara into an attack to make it stronger. Making the charge techniques into jutsu ones would make it too easy to just spam the lv3 jutsu over and over again.
No sense, since noone able to make even lvl2. And if u dont want ppl to spam lvl 3, just take more chakra for that attack.
I do agree with the speed to charge the attack. I already have an idea on how to make the charging system better that I will share with sam and hopefully have it tested sometime this week, it'll add more range and control to the charge moves making them more useful and effective.
Sometimes, in ntsd 2.4 impossible to make itachis fire, if opponent not busy with something, since attack pretty slow. Maybe your new system would work in 4p game, but in 1 vs 1 - i dont think so. Real human wont wait even 1 second.

I think one of the reasons people like 2.4 better is because they've mastered it and not only that 2.4 has more characters. 2.4 is complete whereas NTSD II is only getting started. Its like comparing an infant to an adult. I've watched videos on youtube of fights in NTSD 2.4 and I've been very disappointed, it became a game all about running around chasing each other and spamming three attacks until one of the hits. When NTSD II gets more characters I'm pretty sure people will spend hours messing around with them just like with 2.4.
There are chars, with who noone plays. The most popular one was allways sasuke who have nice air attack, strong and fast + have alot of attacks and combos.
I would like to say, strong = popular
char and fun game

I've been trying to make this game into something the NTSD 2.4 fans will enjoy, and I now see that I have a long ways to go before this game will be accepted by the old fans. I'm trying to get it closer to 2.4 without loosing the things that make it "NTSD II", and I've already accepted the fact that this game won't appeal to everyone, and that there will always be something that someone doesn't like. Just give the game time to grow guys. And Smouk, that was very well written, your opinion might just make this game what NTSD fans want.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Mad_Max on January 9th 2013, 10:30 pm

@K E N T A R U wrote:I think I'm the only one who likes the charging system... To me the charging system makes perfect sense, you're putting more chakara into an attack to make it stronger. Making the charge techniques into jutsu ones would make it too easy to just spam the lv3 jutsu over and over again. I do agree with the speed to charge the attack. I already have an idea on how to make the charging system better that I will share with sam and hopefully have it tested sometime this week, it'll add more range and control to the charge moves making them more useful and effective.
In fact, many people like the idea, but Smoke believes that most people are playing online, I believe that this is not the case, this system suits me as much as system of 2.4, both of these systems are different. Here, you are a developers and the direction of the game will only be in your powers. Any informed opinions would be great for us regular users. No need to look at the number of posts and the date when I am logged in, I play this game since the version 1.9 of this, I have at least a little sense.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by DrKret on January 9th 2013, 10:48 pm

I like charging system. I throught you was doing something that was supposet to help with charging (charging half bar now and other half some times later).

And if you want to change it what you will do with Pain who must use full chakra to do level 1 his jutsu (rest is just waiting).

It's very good to stop spamming op attack. Now with change with Sasuke Katon i dont use his Fireball Technique I always do Dragon Fire.

And ofc people play NTSD 2.4 three years but it's becouse they dont have any better alternative. Project NTSD II was death.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Neko on January 9th 2013, 10:59 pm

@K E N T A R U wrote:Making the charge techniques into jutsu ones would make it too easy to just spam the lv3 jutsu over and over again.

I think that's not what Smouk thought. Itachi doesn't have level 2 or level 3 jutsu with his D^A move. The same would be with NTSD II. Ordinary moves (3 of them) which were putted in one key combination.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by DrKret on January 9th 2013, 11:39 pm

@Neko wrote:
@K E N T A R U wrote:Making the charge techniques into jutsu ones would make it too easy to just spam the lv3 jutsu over and over again.

I think that's not what Smouk thought. Itachi doesn't have level 2 or level 3 jutsu with his D^A move. The same would be with NTSD II. Ordinary moves (3 of them) which were putted in one key combination.
Yes but that was totaly different attack. Look at rasengan or raikiri levels up - they are the same attack, just little stronger
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Neko on January 9th 2013, 11:44 pm

@DrKret wrote:
@Neko wrote:
@K E N T A R U wrote:Making the charge techniques into jutsu ones would make it too easy to just spam the lv3 jutsu over and over again.

I think that's not what Smouk thought. Itachi doesn't have level 2 or level 3 jutsu with his D^A move. The same would be with NTSD II. Ordinary moves (3 of them) which were putted in one key combination.
Yes but that was totaly different attack. Look at rasengan or raikiri levels up - they are the same attack, just little stronger

True, but you can think out of something. Like for Raikiri D>J normal Raikiri, D>J + A chasing raikiri (like one in NTSD 2.4), D>J + D double raikiri, but it waves more signs to perform it (takes up more time). You can always think out a way.

Same with Naruto. D>J normal Rasengan, D>J + A ultimate rasengan (poops out another clone do it, thus taking more time), D>J + D normal rasengan, but with larger length (like in fight with Pein), a clone pops out and throws Naruto mid-air, thus giving him more length to perform this attack.

This is just how I think, there's a lot of possibilities.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by FirzenSK on January 10th 2013, 1:20 am

@Kentaru: No, you are not only one. I like charge system. But it could be little faster. I liked NTSD II more, but now, I dont know. My favourite character was Sasuke, but now, he dont have Kirin and Fire attack are very changed. Charge system is good.
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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by Vaanire on January 11th 2013, 10:43 pm

What I liked about NTSD 2.4 was making fast combinations of attacks... But lately I wanted to flee from Temari's fire-line with Kakashi's Kamui... He does signs, signs and signs while Temari spams the same attack three times.

What I really, really like are all of moves that are not simply attacks but are rather supportive. I still haven't tried NTSD II CR with my friends, but I imagine for example Naruto with Rasengan level 3 charged and Kakashi who sends him right into enemy. All trapping moves are also good.

And there are some thing to think over: why Temari can send you flying at the other end of map with wind-based instant move which will hit you even in air or even if you are standing higher/lower than her, while Shinra Tensei, the gravity-based ultimate technique of Rinnegan, the eyes of blah blah, requires some delay, works in just one line and cannot catch you in the air?

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Re: NTSDII Main problem and its solution

Post by roar12345 on January 12th 2013, 6:51 am

I'm not going to write alot here, but what I see is the main problem is NTSD II game play rules that allow characters to "pop" up next to another player. All kinds of characters' moves that are far ranged are usually useless in this case, giving strong melee based attack character the upper advantage. Another thing in general about the game, NO harsh criticism intended, I want this game to be the best it can be, is the constant lag throughout the game with certain moves and weapons.

Ex: Pain's chibaku tensei drags himself in most of the time.
Smoke bombs lags the game most of the time
Some maps are too small for character's long ranged jutsus
A restriction of 5 secs for Pain isn't ideal unless maps gets a boost in size

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